Why I love Holmes.
In my opinion there are three different versions of old school D&D. Original, Advanced, and Basic. I know it's common to include Original and Basic together as classic (which is what the Save Or Die podcast is all about) I actually believe there is a deviation between the two solidified with the Moldvay set.
Now. What that means for Holmes is that it belongs in all three versions of oldschool D&D. As a simplified OD&D, and entryway into AD&D, and the genesis of Basic D&D.
It's a wonderful book and I am happy to be in this group to discuss it.
I'm with you Carl, Holmes is the middle ground between the triumvirate, with connections to each, but being it's own thing.
ReplyDeleteYes, Holmes is the nexus between the three, an interesting ruleset in its own right, as well. My personal viewpoint is that while the other rulesets bare the earmarks of Gygax... i.e. Gygaxian. Holmes basic is distinctly Holmesian.
ReplyDeleteIndeed it is, there are so many "bridges" in Holmes: 5-way alignment, almost-but-not-really race-as-class, etc. And hence worthy of it's own retroclone. Now, if only someone would write one ... ;-)
ReplyDeleteInteresting your use of "Classic". After the sort out across various forums and blogs in the early 2000s on rules sets, my impression was that the old school D&D family tree was broken out (without getting too deep in the weeds):
ReplyDeleteOD&D
Holmes Basic
AD&D 1e
Basic/Expert (aka Moldvay-Cook)
Mentzer Basic
In most discussion I've seen in recent years, "Classic" tends to lump in B/X and Mentzer (with the caveat that with the Companion and later sets, Mentzer D&D increasingly deviated from B/X and became its own animal).
Holmes for me is an offshoot of OD&D with elements drawn from Holmes own play experiences (to include the Warlock rules set) and some bolt ons of AD&Disms from TSR. Some might call it an evolutionary dead end since no further rules emanated from it, but I prefer to think of it as its own unique animal - both in rules and tone - that serves as a great foundation for a low level oriented, gritty and lethal swords & sorcery campaign system.
All the above IMO of course, others' mileage may vary.
Holmes is without a doubt an offshoot of OD&D and I would say it is more similar to OD&D than any other system. My understanding is that the community as a whole considers classic d&d to be essentially any old school D&D product without an advanced before the title. This possibly due mostly to the legal agreements that separated advanced from original with the requirement that a non advanced line continue on the market.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that BECMI is only really different from B/X if we include the CMI part but without the CMI the systems are very similar so one could consider the CMI as additional optional rules that honestly could be tagged onto B/X almost as easily as they could B/E.
My thoughts on 'classic' D&D is not so much the ruleset but the style of play.
ReplyDeleteFor example, "Classic D&D' tends to focus on challenging the PLAYER rather than the character. You have puzzles that the PLAYER needs to solve, you have circumstances that the PLAYER needs to think to avoid. The CHARACTER'S skill is not that important to the success of the adventure.
Later D&D begins to deviate from this distinction significantly as skills are introduced, and the focus shifts to the character sheet, and what skills and abilities the CHARACTER has that might solve the problem.
I think you might guess which style I prefer.
Holmes Basic is clearly OD&D; no other version existed in 1977 when the first printing of the Holmes basic book was printed. Everything you find in that 48 page intro book can be found in the 3LBB's, Greyhawk supplement, or the pages of The Strategic Review and early Dragon Magazine.
ReplyDeleteHolmes Basic also does show an evolutionary step toward AD&D, or at least as much of it existed in concept back in '77 (and in fact, the Monster Manual is statted out more like OD&D than the later AD&D).
I do agree with the general gist of what others are saying though, that Holmes Basic is an excellent intro to all three directions of D&D as it existed in its heyday ('80-81, when OD&D, AD&D, and B/X D&D coexisted concurrently), as it contains elements common to all of them.