Some of you may know that I favor a human centric world. That said I have a player that wants to be a half-orc what's a good Holmesian take on the half-orc as a player race/class amalgam..
Hoping to breed tge agression out of orcs, a wizard used his craft to crossbreed orcs with humans. His hope was that he could then release these intellectually superior, and less violent, orcs into orc populations, where they would begin taking over as the dominant strain.
Honestly, I'd just take a look at the AD&D 1e half orc and modify to fit what the player's looking for (a simple half orc fighter might be a bit boring, but the classic cleric/thief might be fun). Biggest question would be what sort of orcs do you have in your campaign world.. pig faced orcs? Bakshi-style LOTR orcs? Are they just brutish humanoids, or something else?
I like to think of half orcs as being a slur used by humans to put down another species. in fact the half orcs are neanderthals, struggling to survive in a world where humans have mostly replaced them.
Q: "Why would half orcs want to be a cleric?" A: "Blood and souls for Lord Arioch!!" ; ) Even just looking at the rather small Holmes Basic spell list for clerics, there's plenty of great potential for furthering the cause of the dark gods of Chaos.. Cause Light Wounds, Darkness, Putrefy Food and Water, Cause Fear, Curse, Hold Person and Silence 15' Radius give a considerably more range for mayhem against the force of Law than being a plain jane fighter.. that's why the cleric/thief combo for half orcs in AD&D is such a great one!
Herman Klang I can't speak for their games, but there's a half-orc in at least one of the Boinger & Zereth Dragon magazine stories. The most prominent cleric is Brother Ambrose in the Maze of Peril, who is definitely "humble" and speaks Latin when casting cast spells.
Well, lets keep going, Chris! ;) If you were to play a half-orc cleric, would you multi- or dual-class it with Thief or Fighter? How would you do it with Holmes' Basic? Like Dual-class in AD&D: At level 3 switch to different class at level 1? Or would you multi-class it like the Elf F/M-U?
Thanks Scott for joining us. Now Robert I must confess I am still on the fence with demi humans being clerics. I'm okay with multi classed characters to the point at which it becomes hard to picture their training. Did your cleric sneak out of the monostery at night to practice at the thieves guild?
Chris Holmes I think most people imagine half-orc thief/clerics as an approximation of what you did with the witch doctor class. That was part of my inspiration when was coming up with my version.
Chris Holmes I'm with Herman Klang on this one, mostly. ;) I can only see Half-Elves being clerics, for the reasons given in the Greyhawk supplement, but the half-orc - being that it was introduced officially in AD&D, is a very unusualy case. It is one of my favorites, because it is such an underdog. No one trusts half-orcs, and only a few others actually like them. They have to hide their orcish traits as a PC (that 10% that can actually pass for human), and if we follow the class rules for half-orcs, their best options are being sneaky & underhanded, but I wouldn't take it to mean that they are part of any official clergy, nor do they have to be.
In the early days before we got any rule books that explained pantheons or deities, our clerics were very generic - we could cast spells and venerate any deity we wanted to at any time. We found a shrine or temple - we could worship at it and get random bennies as long as the shrine/temple alignment was compatible with the cleric's alignment.
Half-orcs, though, in a Holmes ruled game would be sneaky (thief) types with additional cause light wound or curse abilities - as part of their racial background (even though mechanically it is a class).
Ok Robert I like your orc cleric in a world with small God's. Those of you intrigued by an Orc god should read A Lee Martinez's "Helen and Troy" a funny book and kind of touching.
Hoping to breed tge agression out of orcs, a wizard used his craft to crossbreed orcs with humans. His hope was that he could then release these intellectually superior, and less violent, orcs into orc populations, where they would begin taking over as the dominant strain.
ReplyDeleteNobody ever said it was a good idea.
Gerald Williams I like it.
ReplyDeleteDrunken one night stand.
ReplyDeleteBarbarian or dwarf without size mods or elf with xtra hp no spells
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I'd just take a look at the AD&D 1e half orc and modify to fit what the player's looking for (a simple half orc fighter might be a bit boring, but the classic cleric/thief might be fun). Biggest question would be what sort of orcs do you have in your campaign world.. pig faced orcs? Bakshi-style LOTR orcs? Are they just brutish humanoids, or something else?
ReplyDeleteI like to think of half orcs as being a slur used by humans to put down another species. in fact the half orcs are neanderthals, struggling to survive in a world where humans have mostly replaced them.
ReplyDelete-1 to reaction rolls; -1 to all rolls in direct sunlight; plus 1 to hit and damage at night.
ReplyDeleteElf - f/mu
ReplyDeleteDwarf - f/cl
Hobbit - f/th
Gnome - mu/th
Half-orc - cl/th
Half-elf - mu/cl
Or use the Orcish background from here: zenopusarchives.blogspot.com - 20 Backgrounds for OD&D
ReplyDeleteZach's orcish background is the first thing I thought of, if we're discussing how to do a half-orc in a Holmsian light. :)
ReplyDeleteWhy would a half orc want to be a cleric; Orcs are bad boys aren't they? I don't know why any demi human would choose to be a cleric either.
ReplyDeleteChris Holmes it depends on the half orcs I guess. They're half human too.
ReplyDeleteAs for the other races, I assume they have clerics for their gods but they are considered too valuable to slum it with adventurous men.
Q: "Why would half orcs want to be a cleric?" A: "Blood and souls for Lord Arioch!!" ; ) Even just looking at the rather small Holmes Basic spell list for clerics, there's plenty of great potential for furthering the cause of the dark gods of Chaos.. Cause Light Wounds, Darkness, Putrefy Food and Water, Cause Fear, Curse, Hold Person and Silence 15' Radius give a considerably more range for mayhem against the force of Law than being a plain jane fighter.. that's why the cleric/thief combo for half orcs in AD&D is such a great one!
ReplyDeleteThat was an inspiring speech, but I still think of Clerics as being humble and nerdy.
ReplyDeleteOrcish is a magical affliction, not a race separate from Men. The end result is the same.
ReplyDeleteChris Holmes Is that classic Holmes Canon? were clerics stuck up and nerdy? were there half-orcs hanging out with Bonger et al.?
ReplyDeletethey are not something addressed all that often on the Zenopus archives.
Herman Klang I can't speak for their games, but there's a half-orc in at least one of the Boinger & Zereth Dragon magazine stories. The most prominent cleric is Brother Ambrose in the Maze of Peril, who is definitely "humble" and speaks Latin when casting cast spells.
ReplyDeleteZach H cool, thanks.
ReplyDeleteCongrats on the longest coherent thread we've had on this site.
ReplyDeleteWell, lets keep going, Chris! ;) If you were to play a half-orc cleric, would you multi- or dual-class it with Thief or Fighter? How would you do it with Holmes' Basic? Like Dual-class in AD&D: At level 3 switch to different class at level 1? Or would you multi-class it like the Elf F/M-U?
ReplyDeleteChris Holmes Are you a relative of Dr. Holmes? Is this your family's D&D?
ReplyDeleteScott Anderson Yes, Chris is one of J. Eric's sons. Boinger & Zereth were two of his first characters in their games. He's been going to the North Texas RPG Con for the last several years. http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/jeh_reading_ntxrpgcon-8.html
ReplyDeleteVery good.
ReplyDeleteIt took me a long time (1983 until 2015) to differentiate between the several versions of basic D&D.
Thanks to Zenopus and Michael Thomas I have had the privilege of learning that I like Holmes the best.
Thank you for representing the brand, Chris Holmes
Thanks Scott for joining us. Now Robert I must confess I am still on the fence with demi humans being clerics. I'm okay with multi classed characters to the point at which it becomes hard to picture their training. Did your cleric sneak out of the monostery at night to practice at the thieves guild?
ReplyDeleteChris Holmes I think most people imagine half-orc thief/clerics as an approximation of what you did with the witch doctor class. That was part of my inspiration when was coming up with my version.
ReplyDeleteTouche! But no Dwarven witch doctors please.
ReplyDeleteChris Holmes I'm with Herman Klang on this one, mostly. ;) I can only see Half-Elves being clerics, for the reasons given in the Greyhawk supplement, but the half-orc - being that it was introduced officially in AD&D, is a very unusualy case. It is one of my favorites, because it is such an underdog. No one trusts half-orcs, and only a few others actually like them. They have to hide their orcish traits as a PC (that 10% that can actually pass for human), and if we follow the class rules for half-orcs, their best options are being sneaky & underhanded, but I wouldn't take it to mean that they are part of any official clergy, nor do they have to be.
ReplyDeleteIn the early days before we got any rule books that explained pantheons or deities, our clerics were very generic - we could cast spells and venerate any deity we wanted to at any time. We found a shrine or temple - we could worship at it and get random bennies as long as the shrine/temple alignment was compatible with the cleric's alignment.
Half-orcs, though, in a Holmes ruled game would be sneaky (thief) types with additional cause light wound or curse abilities - as part of their racial background (even though mechanically it is a class).
Ok Robert I like your orc cleric in a world with small God's. Those of you intrigued by an Orc god should read A Lee Martinez's "Helen and Troy" a funny book and kind of touching.
ReplyDelete