I am once again harping on demihumans and level limits. This is my explanation for why dwarfs have level limits. Holmes is of course silent on level limits, but the rules suggest switching to OD&D or AD&D, both have level limits. I have learned from Chris Holmes that Holmes himself probably did not enforce level limits in his campaign. So, I dunno .. please don't ban me for posting this garbage.
Originally shared by Herman Klang
I wanted to add dwarfs to the list of demihumans that have in world reasons for level limits.
http://dungeonsofklang.blogspot.com/2017/08/dwarf-level-limits-and-why-dungeons-are.html
Great post. I'm gonna start checking out your historical posts.
ReplyDeletewhy not take level limits as a status of the race at the time. There was a point when humans could not do the 4 minute mile. Once someone did (BJ) other could also.... So i've always run it like this. The level limit is what it is. MY PC's dwarf gets to the top of his 'class'. Once there he has to learn for himself and/or non-dwarfs. So he has to spend XP to achieve the level as well as gain XP. So if he has 100,000xp and the next level tops out at 200,000xp, he has to earn an additional 100,000xp bringing his total to 200,000xp. HE now is that new level, his whole race's level limit is raised by one (in my games) and that dwarf is now at 100,001xp and is the new level. HE has to regain to the top of the NEW new level before he can push his race up again.
ReplyDeleteAt this point in my AD&D campaigns Gnomes can be Monks up to level 4, Elves can be MU up to level 13, and Dwarves can be Monks up to level 6. (they both got monk class for saving the god of Monks in the Castle Greyhawk dungeons).
Rachael Strange I like your way. I think it is a good and flavorful way of addressing the issue. There are a few issues that it creates at name level for my vision of fantasy reality. The first is followers at name level characters begin to attract followers. It does no fit the flavor of my game for demi-humans too attract followers, they are too alien solitary. They do not want to be responsible for a retinue. The second is I do not like the idea of them building strongholds. Same reason.
ReplyDeleteOf course, there is no reason why this couldn't be solved by saying, "They get the level but no followers and no stronghold/tower/whatever" or, "instead of normal followers her is the elf/dwarf/whatever follower chart and the elf wood/moon temple/ dwarf forge/mine construction rules." Those would be fun too. I would read someone's blog post about it.
The goal of my explanations is to highlight the alienness of demi-humans and preserve the mechanics of the OD&D rules. It is an aesthetic choice that accentuates otherness and demonstrates that the rules of my fantasy world go against some of the basic rules of genetics/physics etc that we bring to the table as players.
I hope no one wants to ban you for having strange ideas. The idea of levels is pretty strange. Still wondering why you don't like demi humans. You write about them well.
ReplyDeleteJust have the level limit be their HD limit, and then +1-3 HP there after.
ReplyDeleteAs I wrote in a comment on the blog post, Holmes Basic never mentions level limits, so it seems unfair to slap them on a PC once they've progressed past Basic to OD&D or AD&D. Plus in practice I've never really used or enforced them. But they are part of the "D&D rules milieu" of 1974-1980. And it was fun as a kid to make a detailed study of the PHB level limit table when deciding what race/class to be. And the carrot of unlimited advancement does steer some beginning PCs towards humans, even if those levels are never achieved in practice.
ReplyDeleteDavid Ferguson that's eminently reasonable
ReplyDelete