Olde House Rules wrote:
Now, I LOVE me some Holmes Basic, so much so that I'm utterly fascinated with the idea of playing it as complete game. This means nothing added to expand the game beyond its current 3 levels...
Can it be done? One idea I've played with is that characters begin the game with full hits by level. Beyond that, they accumulate earned experience and can spend it buying advancements and upgrades to their characters in the following areas:
+1 HIT POINT ADDED
+1 SPELL CAST PER DAY
+5% TO THIEVING ATTEMPTS
+1 TO HIT AND SAVE
For instance, fighters might spend 500 EXP to get +1 hit point, although this is just an example...
The experience cost for each should vary by class, but I'm a bit stymied about how to assign that cost.
Furthermore, clerical turning needs to be addressed, along with the distinction between characters and (leveled) monsters...
Any ideas from the community? Thanks!
EDIT: I'm not suggesting a classless system here, but one where characters gain abilities traditionally within their classes, but do so spending experience points on individual elements.
Beyond first level (and perhaps at the end of each session), players spend experience buying , say, 1 more HP, etc.
END OF EDIT ;-)
There might be some useful info to mine here: http://breeyark.org/files/perfect_class.pdf
ReplyDeleteIt seems a little BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia-centric, but they've gone and crunched some serious numbers to try and assign Experience Point costs to the various class abilities and components of the standard classes. It's kind of scary how it works out.
It can certainly be done and is a rewarding and fun style of gaming. Makes players think about the challenges they face and is not superpowered.
ReplyDeleteTunnels & Trolls or The Fantasy Trip maybe?
ReplyDeleteGreat idea!
ReplyDeleteI would suggest that after 3rd level and only after 3rd level you are allowed to increase the above suggestions. However you are only allowed to do one thing every time you reach say 1500 XP. So raise a stat, increase a spell, etc.
ReplyDeleteI do like the idea of max hit points across the board. After level 3, make em roll for em. So a wizard at 3rd level would get 12 Hit points, once he gets to "4th" he has to roll
ReplyDeleteAlso as Holmes is based on D6 damage, you may want to add the ability to +1 attacks.
ReplyDeletektrey parker Nice! I'll commence with picking this apart and mining it for ideas...thanks!
ReplyDeleteShane Ward Yeah, you COULD just extrapolate levels and extend to a complete game. Our own Pits & Perils uses fixed HP across the board, and it works...
ReplyDeleteOne reason I dig Holmes equally as much as I dig B/X is that, to me, with B/X I can make the game my own whereas with Holmes I can make my own game.
ReplyDeleteI like this idea and I've always found the thought of using Holmes as a complete game very interesting since Geoffry proposed the idea in a thread on Dragonsfoot wherein (if I remember correctly) he put forth the notion that it may make the game give an atmosphere of "The Hobbit".
Having said that I'm uncertain it would be 'worth it'. What I see (though I've often been accused of being negative) are a number of areas in which one would have to assign separate costs for each class and then hope that it all pans out. At the same time, it's all already 'done for you' in the form of, say, OD&D and taking cues from it to expand progression.
But then, I suppose you're just playing OD&D with a Holmes book...which may be boring when you could really do anything. shrug
Though it's interesting to imagine that one could expand his 3rd level thief solely in the areas of hit points and 'to hit' and save. Hmm.
Was this the intent? That characters would be classes until a point at which, having solidified themselves within their chosen area, began to expand...to 'dabble'... to grow outward (a magic-user spending XP on 'to hit', etc.)?
Eric Norred Ok, I realize I really didn't explain myself very well, so let me clarify my intentions:
ReplyDeleteCharacters retain class, and may only buy advancements that would otherwise be available to that class...
In other words, Holmes as a (complete, self-contained) system where characters improve without going through the discrete quanta each level represents...
I was thinking along the lines of how Advanced Fighting Fantasy handles leveling up. You are allowed to pick one stat to update per level (usually per adventure) to a maximum of a certain number.
ReplyDeleteOlde House Rules Ah. I see. But, then...improved 'to hit' and hp are still within the realm of the thief class (for example) so you'll also need to place limits/ceilings somewhere somehow. And when too I s'pose. Tricky.
ReplyDeleteDonald McKinney I think it's simply that many folks take Holmes as an opportunity to use it as a doorway to their own game in their own way (no matter how wild...one fellow on DF that uses Holmes as a base even jettisoned ability scores) rather than an iteration of OD&D.
ReplyDeleteEric Norred Tricky for sure. This is mainly a thought exercise as to what one could do with Homes, which I've always loved as an entity unto itself!
ReplyDeleteGreat discussion. Another possibility would be the 1E Gamma World XP Bonus Matrix. Each time you 'level up' (i.e. gain a certain amount of XP), all you get is one random increase. You roll a d10 and get a +1 to one stat, or to hit, or to damage.
ReplyDeleteHm. So one might come up with class-specific advancement matrices for such a scheme in a Holmes advancement that has been proposed here.
ReplyDeleteI've never even seen Gamma World but I'm pretty sure I follow.
Zach H Old-school meets old-school...awesome!
ReplyDelete