Gotta get back to designing some of those for assorted games. I used to do it semi-regularly, and enjoyed the "puzzle" of placing things logically and attractively.
Look at that piece of dungeon map! I could make out "Orcs playing darts, billiards, drink SLEERT (?)", followed by an entry starting as "Casino, CLA, dice, blackjack run by evil priest who never loses."
The thing I wonder about with old dungeons like that is...
Was there larger context or narrative around that dungeon design?
Like, were they just bashing monsters and dealing with traps and warped spaces and whatever else, and that was it for the game -- that was enough to have fun? Or was there a larger context in which the characters were acting, but all that needed to be written down were the monsters, traps and treasure -- because the fact that they were there to try to save Sir Orriff's brother was understood by the DM and the players at the time...?
When I was 9 or 10 circa 1978, a few orcs in a room guarding a chest of gold pieces was fine and all I needed to have fun. But I know plenty of players in the 70s were adults and was that enough for them, too?
Jon Wilson there's a slightly later video that shows Ian, Steve, and Albie Fiore playing D&D that quite nicely illustrates the play style - there doesn't seem to be much of an overarching plot, dungeon exploration reaping rewards, solving puzzles, seems the order of the day. youtube.com - LARP SOUTH OF WATFORD PT1
Zhu Bajiee ...the only issue I have is that, this is likely a simplified presentation for a TV show item, aimed at people with no clue what the game is... So I don't think I can rely upon it for what I'm wondering about...
Jon Wilson Sure, it's just one data-point out of many. If having a 'plot' were considered an important aspect of the game then it would have been significant enough to communicate that aspect to new audiences, even if in just a cursory way to set the scene - but I can't see any such concessions in any of SJ/IL early work. I guess the only real way of knowing is to ask them and assume their recollections are accurate!
Here's a clean scan of the early GW OD&D character sheet, posted by another user on the Acaeum back in 2014:
ReplyDeletehttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JNQz0QQngzF-GtH0MAuaMw0w7qn2bcktgRPbx5-ST_J18kpi_4x6ENQyLbGcVzxqpnyvKuOfwl4OAQczcSI4k68NaAYc8_IespI=s0
Cool! I dig that character sheet!
ReplyDeleteSeconded on the character sheet.
ReplyDeleteGotta get back to designing some of those for assorted games. I used to do it semi-regularly, and enjoyed the "puzzle" of placing things logically and attractively.
Look at that piece of dungeon map! I could make out "Orcs playing darts, billiards, drink SLEERT (?)", followed by an entry starting as "Casino, CLA, dice, blackjack run by evil priest who never loses."
ReplyDeleteThere is also a wishing well and a pawnbroker. :D
Gabor Lux Yeah, super minimal key. I think 21 - the large room with waves - just says "Giants underwater 500 GP"!
ReplyDeleteI asked Jon if that is Livingstone's first ever dungeon that he mentioned
ReplyDeleteIt is reminiscent of the brevity of Jackson's Dungeon of the Ground Goblins https://sites.google.com/site/zenopusarchives/home/modules-and-scenarios/other-sample-dungeons/the-dungeons-of-the-ground-goblins
ReplyDeletesites.google.com - The Dungeons of the Ground Goblins - Zenopus Archives
The thing I wonder about with old dungeons like that is...
ReplyDeleteWas there larger context or narrative around that dungeon design?
Like, were they just bashing monsters and dealing with traps and warped spaces and whatever else, and that was it for the game -- that was enough to have fun? Or was there a larger context in which the characters were acting, but all that needed to be written down were the monsters, traps and treasure -- because the fact that they were there to try to save Sir Orriff's brother was understood by the DM and the players at the time...?
When I was 9 or 10 circa 1978, a few orcs in a room guarding a chest of gold pieces was fine and all I needed to have fun. But I know plenty of players in the 70s were adults and was that enough for them, too?
Jon Wilson there's a slightly later video that shows Ian, Steve, and Albie Fiore playing D&D that quite nicely illustrates the play style - there doesn't seem to be much of an overarching plot, dungeon exploration reaping rewards, solving puzzles, seems the order of the day. youtube.com - LARP SOUTH OF WATFORD PT1
ReplyDeleteAlbie Fiore! One of my favorite D&D writers from across the pond, loved his stuff back in the day!
ReplyDeleteZhu Bajiee ...the only issue I have is that, this is likely a simplified presentation for a TV show item, aimed at people with no clue what the game is... So I don't think I can rely upon it for what I'm wondering about...
ReplyDeleteJon Wilson Sure, it's just one data-point out of many. If having a 'plot' were considered an important aspect of the game then it would have been significant enough to communicate that aspect to new audiences, even if in just a cursory way to set the scene - but I can't see any such concessions in any of SJ/IL early work. I guess the only real way of knowing is to ask them and assume their recollections are accurate!
ReplyDeleteAll true.
ReplyDelete