This thread has me thinking about Wizard Duels. Here are the original Chainmail rules for counterspells:
"If there are two or mare opposing Wizards, and the game is not a recreation of a battle found in a novel, determine which is the stronger magician (by casting dice if necessary). The stronger magician can successfully cast a counter-spell with a two dice score of 7 or better, while a weaker magician needs a score of 8, 9, 10 or 11, depending on his relative strength. A counter-spell fully occupies a magician's powers."
http://odd74.proboards.com/thread/11533
Using some form of counter-spells that don't require memorization might be a way to give MUs something else to do once they've cast all their spells.
ReplyDeleteThis older thread (2008) has some ideas by Cameron DuBeers for incorporating the Chainmail counter-spell system into OD&D:
ReplyDeletehttp://odd74.proboards.com/thread/1601/spell-complexity-counter-od
That is a fantastic idea. It is also a nice thing to limit to "pure magic users," if you allow OSR classes that are MU variants.
ReplyDeleteInteresting thread.. all the immediate comments I'd have made are already in there - TSR's "War of Wizards" as a possible precedent; the oddly similar vibe to the later psionic combat system that made it into AD&D. The Adventures in Fantasy mechanic I hadn't heard of - have the game, will have to look it up. Not mentioned.. I wonder how much of the dueling wizards trope may have come from the 1963 film "The Raven" (the final duel in the film, in particular): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raven_%281963_film%29 The film has very little to do with Poe's poem, but it's a fun take on how two magic users might take each other on.
ReplyDeleteI believe the publication of the Psionics system (in Eldritch Wizardry in 1976) pre-dated the publication of Adventures in Fantasy in 1979. So it's hard to tell which influenced which. Arneson may have altered his system after seeing the Psioncis rules.
ReplyDeleteAndy C Great insight on The Raven, Mike Mornard has mentioned that movie before (which I had forgotten). Mike: "Gary loved The Raven".
ReplyDeletehttp://odd74.proboards.com/post/99967
Yep, Eldritch Wizardry definitely predated Adventures in Fantasy.. but knowing how things go, I wouldn't be surprised if the wizard duel system presented in Adventures in Fantasy was either directly used earlier in the Blackmoor campaign, or was a later variant of what Arneson used in Blackmoor.
ReplyDeleteSo you'd have sort of a dual (pun not intended) evolution - original duel mechanic in Blackmoor campaign; gets shared with Gygax during development of D&D, later resurfaces as influence on the psionics system in Eldritch Wizardry; meanwhile, continues to be used in Blackmoor campaign and either the original mechanics or later variants thereof later surface in Adventures in Fantasy.
Perhaps embed this function in equipment, and use the 'hand economy' that fighters play with.
ReplyDeleteYou have two kinds of magic casting tool - foci and wards. These come in one and two-handed types. A one-handed ward can turn spells which attack the wizard themselves on a 7+ on 2d6 (plus Int mod). These still land somewhere (random) but on a 12 the MU can redirect them as desired.
With a two handed ward, the magic user can defend allies within 10+level feet, on 7+ (check made for each ally warded).
The Foci instead make spells reach further and harder to turn and save against- 50% more range and -d4 points for one-handed foci, and double range and -d8 for large two-handed foci.
The costs of these items should be quite steep, and if lost or destroyed require the MU to level before replacent.