It has been decades since I played the old blue D&D it still has a big place in my heart. While I like AD&D and I own OSRIC. I wanted to give the Holmes game a try again.
Holmes isn't my #1 fave, but it's what I'm drawn to when I want to fully make D&D "my own". If I wanted a sort of quick, grab-n-go (the way I can do with something like, say, B/X) then it would be Holmes + Meepo's Companion. Usually though, I take Zach's Holmes/OD&D reference sheet, his 3rd Level Spells sheet, and then bits and pieces of my own additions for further spells, etc.,etc., blah, blah, blah. Then again, if I want a 'one book' sort of deal that's more or less Holmesian + very few house rules I turn to Swords & Wizardry Core rules (though of course the Holmes book is always about to help me with that certain atmosphere/feel and so on). :) Still, though, I'd rather just and only the Holmes spread of monsters and treasure and options (even in a game up to and including 9th/10th level).
I can't remember where I read this but the intention was for players to go from Holmes basic to 1e AD&D. I may have just read that in an early White Dwarf interview with Gygax back in '79. The 1e AD&D Player's Handbook is the Hplmes book that goes to 11 (and beyond).
Jason Zavoda It's been widely and long discussed for a handful of years (within DF and the ODD74 forums as well as many blogs, Zach's included) that the actual original intention of Holmes was for the player to expand to the OD&D rules. Gygax edited in mentions of AD&D as that was his 'baby' at the time. In fact, it makes much more sense to expand to OD&D than towards AD&D considering the feel and breadth of the rules of Holmes (especially since much of it's text is more or less straight from OD&D+Greyhawk).
I always thought it was closer to OD&D myself, although I don't understand why, if that was the intention, Holmes Hit Die progression for classes is like AD&D and not OD&D.
I remember, when I purchased my copy in the toy store, the box was displayed next to a bin of the booklets.
I've been putting the finishing touches on a 96-page version of the blue book, incorporating everything from the LBBs + Greyhawk, for use in our Holmes-based campaign. PCs are all around 7th level and we'll soon be tackling GDQ. Happy to post here when I'm done.
I would love to see that as I was planning a Holmes campaign and trying to figure out what to use to expand beyond 3rd. I obviously didn't know about the details of the greyhawk expansion.
In a few places, Holmes mentions the forthcoming AD&D. I know back then, we took it to heart and viewed "Advanced" as being "better" than "Basic", and that "Basic" was for little kids. But that was back in junior high & high school.
The last time I talked with Meepo, he was VERY surprised (pleasantly so) to hear that his "little experiment" was still being held up in such high regard. :D
Meepo's is one I remember...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.google.com/?client=firefox-a#q=meepo%27s+holmes&channel=fflb
Thanks I'll give it a look.
ReplyDeleteThe website and blog of our very own Zach H is your one-stop-shop. :)
ReplyDeletehttps://sites.google.com/site/zenopusarchives/
Welcome Rainforest Giant! Try this subpage on the site that Eric just pointed out, it summarizes historic & modern expansions:
ReplyDeletehttps://sites.google.com/site/zenopusarchives/home/rules-expansions
My reference sheets have some expansion material (more to come!). Particularly the OD&D Bridge Table & 3rd level MU spells sheets:
ReplyDeletehttps://sites.google.com/site/zenopusarchives/home/holmes-ref
It has been decades since I played the old blue D&D it still has a big place in my heart. While I like AD&D and I own OSRIC. I wanted to give the Holmes game a try again.
ReplyDelete1e AD&D is the extension and expansion of Holmes Basic.
ReplyDeleteJason Zavoda
ReplyDeleteThat was how we played it when it came out. I can still remember the smell of those new books.
Holmes isn't my #1 fave, but it's what I'm drawn to when I want to fully make D&D "my own". If I wanted a sort of quick, grab-n-go (the way I can do with something like, say, B/X) then it would be Holmes + Meepo's Companion. Usually though, I take Zach's Holmes/OD&D reference sheet, his 3rd Level Spells sheet, and then bits and pieces of my own additions for further spells, etc.,etc., blah, blah, blah.
ReplyDeleteThen again, if I want a 'one book' sort of deal that's more or less Holmesian + very few house rules I turn to Swords & Wizardry Core rules (though of course the Holmes book is always about to help me with that certain atmosphere/feel and so on). :)
Still, though, I'd rather just and only the Holmes spread of monsters and treasure and options (even in a game up to and including 9th/10th level).
I can't remember where I read this but the intention was for players to go from Holmes basic to 1e AD&D. I may have just read that in an early White Dwarf interview with Gygax back in '79. The 1e AD&D Player's Handbook is the Hplmes book that goes to 11 (and beyond).
ReplyDeleteJason Zavoda It's been widely and long discussed for a handful of years (within DF and the ODD74 forums as well as many blogs, Zach's included) that the actual original intention of Holmes was for the player to expand to the OD&D rules. Gygax edited in mentions of AD&D as that was his 'baby' at the time. In fact, it makes much more sense to expand to OD&D than towards AD&D considering the feel and breadth of the rules of Holmes (especially since much of it's text is more or less straight from OD&D+Greyhawk).
ReplyDeleteThough, of course it can be fun to run with Holmes as the steward of play and use the MM, PHB, and DMG for extra fun stuff. :)
ReplyDeleteI always thought it was closer to OD&D myself, although I don't understand why, if that was the intention, Holmes Hit Die progression for classes is like AD&D and not OD&D.
ReplyDeleteI remember, when I purchased my copy in the toy store, the box was displayed next to a bin of the booklets.
The Holmes classes HD is in keeping with the OD&D+Greyhawk HD (that is, d8 per level for fighters, d6 for clerics, d4 for thieves and magic-users).
ReplyDeleteI've been putting the finishing touches on a 96-page version of the blue book, incorporating everything from the LBBs + Greyhawk, for use in our Holmes-based campaign. PCs are all around 7th level and we'll soon be tackling GDQ. Happy to post here when I'm done.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see that as I was planning a Holmes campaign and trying to figure out what to use to expand beyond 3rd. I obviously didn't know about the details of the greyhawk expansion.
ReplyDeleteIn a few places, Holmes mentions the forthcoming AD&D. I know back then, we took it to heart and viewed "Advanced" as being "better" than "Basic", and that "Basic" was for little kids. But that was back in junior high & high school.
ReplyDeleteI know better now.
I highly recommend 'Meepo's Holmes Companion' for this. Free download link here: https://sites.google.com/site/meepodm/holmes.pdf
ReplyDeleteDemos Sachlas I'd really like to see that play report!
ReplyDeleteThe last time I talked with Meepo, he was VERY surprised (pleasantly so) to hear that his "little experiment" was still being held up in such high regard. :D
ReplyDeleteI have a Holmes/0e kit-bashed set of my own at http://primereq.blogspot.com/ called "Levels Beyond Basic". I've had problems with google drive, but hopefully the links still work, if anyone wants to check it out: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B959vbM0xzS2VW9VVVFFYmt6QTg/view
and
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B959vbM0xzS2S2d0ZjRVZmc1VWc/view
Robert Weber I'll add Levels Beyond Basic to my list of expansions. Edit: It's actually already there!
ReplyDeleteThanks Zach! :D
ReplyDelete