Here is a question for the community:
How much monetary treasure would you expect to carry out of the dungeon on the average while playing Holmes-scaled characters (1st to 3rd level; the system I am using goes up to 6th)? Where would you draw the line between "this was a bad haul", "this was OK", and "this was more than we expected"?
I have a hunch I may be a bit too tight-fisted, and would like to know how much do you think is too little and too much.
Let's assume a party of 3-4 PCs with an average of two followers each.
For levels 1-3 I tend to hide enough treasure in a typical dungeon level to advance most of the characters in the party one level. Now, mind you, they may or may not find all of this treasure but it is there and the potential exists.
ReplyDeleteCameron DuBeers, I agree. That's a good mid-point approach between B1 (which was somewhat stingy) and B2 (which was a treasure/XP fest if you cleared out the whole Caves of Chaos area plus wilderness encounters without getting wiped out).
ReplyDeleteGiven how infrequently I game these days, if I ran a new campaign playing a session every 2 weeks or so, it'd be a B1-sized equivalent spread over three sessions; and after about three sessions I'd plan for them to be ready to level from an XP/treasure perspective. Note that same would apply for small lairs / wilderness adventuring - such as a small (say 10 mile long) river valley with a B1-sized number and size of small lairs and wilderness encounters spread through the wilderness area.
FWIW, the Holmes Sample Dungeon in the draft had easier monsters and larger treasure sizes, showing a difference in what Holmes and Gygax thought should be given out. I've been meaning to make a table summarizing the differences in total XP from the two. I have a feeling that it comes from the disconnect between the large treasures found in the "Treasure Types" vs what Gygax actually gave out for individual encounters. He added info to the Basic Set saying the Treasure Types were only for large/difficult encounters. Part of this said that it should take 6 to 12 "profitable" adventures (+10-20% profitless) for a party to make it from 1st to 2nd level.
ReplyDeleteI like to have enough treasure so that players always think they'll get robbed on the way back to town from the dungeon. :-)
ReplyDeleteOn a more serious note, if players are complaining - not just typical whiny player complaining - but serious wtf complaining, then maybe the treasure factor needs to rise.
ReplyDeleteIn this specific case, player experiences/expectations would be more useful than GM perspectives.
ReplyDeleteThe campaign I am running revolves around an enormous multi-level haunted castle which is mostly interconnected - with a few exceptions, there are no separate levels except in a rather vague sense. (Think Tegel Manor, but more compact and more 3d).
It is also a high risk/high reward place with a lot of grisly death for first level characters (although the first session's casualties were only eight henchmen and no PCs over three expeditions). It does not translate well to treating it in discrete chunks. You dip in, try to grab the valuables, then run before things catch up with you.
As a player, I'm not a great one to ask. I've been playing in a campaign for almost six years (~110 sessions) and my character is just a 6/6 F/C. Of course, our DM does not give XP for treasure. I didn't even realize that for a few years. : )
ReplyDeleteApply encumbrance rules, include non-standard items instead of coins, and a whole new resource management game comes into play. Plus you can't kill off your henchmen (at least, not until you get the treasure home). I think it adds to the "treasure hunter" theme which I personally prefer to the "monster slayer" one. But then I've always been a Traveller Scout or Merchant rather than a Mercenary. ;-)
ReplyDeleteMichael Thomas Yeah, it is mostly valuable items instead of coin. The biggest single catch from last time was a valuable pipe collection at 700 gp (apply a x5 XP multiplier due to the different coin system) and a +1 ring of protection disguised as a mummified Turk's earring.
ReplyDeleteCorsairs of Tallibar has lots of non-coin treasures. Paintings, sextants, dishes etc. The author makes a comment about it at the beginning.
ReplyDeleteI like non-coin "treasures," especially bulky ones (yeah, I use coins, too). 200 lbs of dried rice, beans or corn in 20 lb bags would feed a family for a long time, or could be sold for a nice profit. Jewelry, commodities (spices, fabrics, textiles, amphoras of oil, anything that can be traded), materials that can be sold to magic-users as spell components, tree resins, salts, even ingots of pig iron or ivory tusks can be "treasure." I try to limit the use of magic items such that there aren't more than three of any one item to be found in the whole world. So if you got one of the three +1 daggers, be happy about it!
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